This is part 4 in a 6-part exchange between Noah Carl and myself. I will be writing parts 2, 4 and 6 in response to Noah’s articles. The subject of our exchange is whether the West is following the right strategy in Ukraine. Noah and I have previously discussed the issue on his podcast, as well as on Twitter. We are now doing so via this Substack exchange. You can read his last contribution below:
The idea that it is a good idea to prolong the war in order to hurt Russia as much as possible is absolutely inhumane and demonstrates a complete lack of compassion for ordinary people on both sides, including the young and not-so-young men on both sides who are being forced to fight (of course our totally biased propagandistic press doesn't show or tell us anything about Ukrainians being forced to fight, and doesn't criticise the fact that men between 18 and 60 have been banned from leaving the country).
Every day the war continues hundreds of unwilling conscripts on both sides get killed and many more sustain life-changing injuries. The recapture of territory surrounding Kherson has only been achieved at the expense of the lives of many hundreds of Ukranian conscripts. If people want to celebrate that then that's up to them, but they're deluding themselves if they think that their position is synonymous with care for Ukrainians. Of course the #StandWithUkraine hashtag is well designed to confused and conflate support for one-sided (anti-Russian) Ukrainian nationalism and support for the ordinary people of Ukraine.
Konstantin says: "The only way to get Ukraine to negotiate right now is to pull all Western support and let them get slaughtered."
This is a persuasive but ultimately highly deceptive argument that confuses and conflates defeat on the battlefield with Ukrainians getting slaughtered. The two things are not the same at all:
Ukrainians ARE getting slaughtered, even (and especially) when they are recapturing territory. The main things that will determine how many more Ukrainians get slaughtered is the length of time that the war continues. It has little to do with how well Ukraine does on the battlefield, yet Konstantin manages to completely confuse and conflate the two things (I think probably due to his own confusion rather than cynically and deliberately).
Konstantin is an unapologetic cheerleader for Western values. What he doesn't seem to understand is that domestic liberal values in Western countries have nothing whatsoever to do with Western foreign policy. The two things are completely different, but he confuses and conflates the two. The US and UK are unapologetic supporters of Israel which not only illegally occupies Palestinian, Lebanese and Syrian land but also brutally oppresses the indigenous population in a form of apartheid far more brutal than that of the apartheid system in South Africa (as the late Archbishop Desmond Tutu and many other South Africans have said). They are also unapologetic supporters of Saudi Arabia and its genocidal war against the people of Yemen which receives no mention in our totally biased Western foreign policy driven media.
In short, whilst we should, of course, defend Western liberal values we should call out immoral Western foreign policy which has nothing to do with morality and fairness and everything to do with profoundly misguided (and ultimately self-destructive) notions of Western self-interest.
The idea that it is a good idea to prolong the war in order to hurt Russia as much as possible is absolutely inhumane and demonstrates a complete lack of compassion for ordinary people on both sides, including the young and not-so-young men on both sides who are being forced to fight (of course our totally biased propagandistic press doesn't show or tell us anything about Ukrainians being forced to fight, and doesn't criticise the fact that men between 18 and 60 have been banned from leaving the country).
Every day the war continues hundreds of unwilling conscripts on both sides get killed and many more sustain life-changing injuries. The recapture of territory surrounding Kherson has only been achieved at the expense of the lives of many hundreds of Ukranian conscripts. If people want to celebrate that then that's up to them, but they're deluding themselves if they think that their position is synonymous with care for Ukrainians. Of course the #StandWithUkraine hashtag is well designed to confused and conflate support for one-sided (anti-Russian) Ukrainian nationalism and support for the ordinary people of Ukraine.
Konstantin says: "The only way to get Ukraine to negotiate right now is to pull all Western support and let them get slaughtered."
This is a persuasive but ultimately highly deceptive argument that confuses and conflates defeat on the battlefield with Ukrainians getting slaughtered. The two things are not the same at all:
Ukrainians ARE getting slaughtered, even (and especially) when they are recapturing territory. The main things that will determine how many more Ukrainians get slaughtered is the length of time that the war continues. It has little to do with how well Ukraine does on the battlefield, yet Konstantin manages to completely confuse and conflate the two things (I think probably due to his own confusion rather than cynically and deliberately).
Konstantin is an unapologetic cheerleader for Western values. What he doesn't seem to understand is that domestic liberal values in Western countries have nothing whatsoever to do with Western foreign policy. The two things are completely different, but he confuses and conflates the two. The US and UK are unapologetic supporters of Israel which not only illegally occupies Palestinian, Lebanese and Syrian land but also brutally oppresses the indigenous population in a form of apartheid far more brutal than that of the apartheid system in South Africa (as the late Archbishop Desmond Tutu and many other South Africans have said). They are also unapologetic supporters of Saudi Arabia and its genocidal war against the people of Yemen which receives no mention in our totally biased Western foreign policy driven media.
In short, whilst we should, of course, defend Western liberal values we should call out immoral Western foreign policy which has nothing to do with morality and fairness and everything to do with profoundly misguided (and ultimately self-destructive) notions of Western self-interest.