This is my contribution to The Best of Our Inheritance: Restoring Our Foundations, a collection of essays on the foundations of our civilisation, published by the Alliance for Responsible Citizenship (ARC).
The Greeks were around centuries before that stinky desert wizard and came up with ideas like republicanism, democracy, and dare I say even rational inquiry, itself. The west already had a thriving civilization before the arrival of Christianity. And I have no problem with Religion, but a part of the reason why the west is great is that it has limits on the control institutions like religion and government, itself. In fact, it's precisely the reason why those two forces are combined that you end up with a country like Iran. As much as I admire Jordan Peterson, his thesis that Christianity is the foundation of western civilization- and not the Greeks and Romans, comes off as a backdoor way of justifying theocracy. It's not a short jump to go from "Christianity is the single most important pillar of western civilization" to the idea that Christianity is something that should be imposed on others. I think if Jordan Peterson had it his way, we would all be answering to a central religious authority, as the head of government. I think Jordan Peterson would be unwilling to acknowledge the irony of a state that was like Iran, but with the Pope at the helm instead of the ayatolla.
Is the "sacredness" of the individual really a central pillar of Christianity? Go tell that to the Jehova's witnesses and Mormons that ostracize and disfellowship people for trying to expose the sexual abuse they were forced to endure. I lived in the deep south of America for 25 years. If the Christian community knew you were non-religious, they didn't care about how sacred your individuality was - they let you know you are a terrible person who's going to hell. I can't tell you how many times I've been put in the hot seat in a workplace environment or social setting due to excersing my right, supposedly a "sacred right" to excerise my individuality and choose not to be religious. Hogwash. I know if I told Jordan Peterson I have no desire to be religious, the finger shaking would never end
I'm with 99% of what KK says, 99% of the time (which is more often than I agree with any one of my closest relatives!). I'm a bit wary of the idea of there being a "contrast" between Western values and the undeniable horrors of Marxism and communism - as those ideas were created and initially nourished in the West, and their idealism espoused by many Western thinkers, in the initial absence of the evidence of the horrendous practical consequences of running societies based on them. And I don't really agree with the view expressed below about "if Jordan Peterson had his way", as if he is some kind of closet fundamentalist tyrant, although I have to respect the personal experiences and views of the commentator. We are rather "forgetting", to some extent, how Christianity had to be "filtered" through the open-mindedness of the Enlightenment, and the evolution of laws and philosophies, before we could consider its virtues anew - but we shouldn't forget its vices, or how many centuries there were of it being ideological and using force and heresy and blasphemy to impose itself, like a sort of rehearsal for Islam. We need to learn to properly liberate humanity from ideology, if that's even possible - not get rid of new ones by reviving an old one to replace it. That doesn't mean not respecting and appreciating the virtues embedded within Christianity - it just means being real about history and human nature, and realize we are discussing it with modern eyes from a modern perspective. We're not arguing with Augustine or Origen or somebody now - or we would soon find out how tolerant and respectful Christianity was for many centuries. I don't have an answer to finding an "accelerator" pedal to bring Islam forward about five hundred years, unfortunately.
The sanctity of the individual began to be undermined as the scientific revolution of the early 18th century led to a philosophic revolution towards Socialism. In many of our Western countries Socialism has led to the perception that individual success comes as the expense of others and thus should be penalised. Most of Europe suffers this disease and thus demonstrates lower growth and development. We need to get back to a true merit based society which follows nature’s laws. As long as some people think that mankind can supersede nature, we are doomed to regression.
Religion can be just as much a collectivism that can be imposed on others as much as government, itself. Don't believe me? Go to try to make friends at a roadside bar in Alabama, sometime
The Greeks were around centuries before that stinky desert wizard and came up with ideas like republicanism, democracy, and dare I say even rational inquiry, itself. The west already had a thriving civilization before the arrival of Christianity. And I have no problem with Religion, but a part of the reason why the west is great is that it has limits on the control institutions like religion and government, itself. In fact, it's precisely the reason why those two forces are combined that you end up with a country like Iran. As much as I admire Jordan Peterson, his thesis that Christianity is the foundation of western civilization- and not the Greeks and Romans, comes off as a backdoor way of justifying theocracy. It's not a short jump to go from "Christianity is the single most important pillar of western civilization" to the idea that Christianity is something that should be imposed on others. I think if Jordan Peterson had it his way, we would all be answering to a central religious authority, as the head of government. I think Jordan Peterson would be unwilling to acknowledge the irony of a state that was like Iran, but with the Pope at the helm instead of the ayatolla.
Is the "sacredness" of the individual really a central pillar of Christianity? Go tell that to the Jehova's witnesses and Mormons that ostracize and disfellowship people for trying to expose the sexual abuse they were forced to endure. I lived in the deep south of America for 25 years. If the Christian community knew you were non-religious, they didn't care about how sacred your individuality was - they let you know you are a terrible person who's going to hell. I can't tell you how many times I've been put in the hot seat in a workplace environment or social setting due to excersing my right, supposedly a "sacred right" to excerise my individuality and choose not to be religious. Hogwash. I know if I told Jordan Peterson I have no desire to be religious, the finger shaking would never end
Brilliant! Just brilliant!
I'm with 99% of what KK says, 99% of the time (which is more often than I agree with any one of my closest relatives!). I'm a bit wary of the idea of there being a "contrast" between Western values and the undeniable horrors of Marxism and communism - as those ideas were created and initially nourished in the West, and their idealism espoused by many Western thinkers, in the initial absence of the evidence of the horrendous practical consequences of running societies based on them. And I don't really agree with the view expressed below about "if Jordan Peterson had his way", as if he is some kind of closet fundamentalist tyrant, although I have to respect the personal experiences and views of the commentator. We are rather "forgetting", to some extent, how Christianity had to be "filtered" through the open-mindedness of the Enlightenment, and the evolution of laws and philosophies, before we could consider its virtues anew - but we shouldn't forget its vices, or how many centuries there were of it being ideological and using force and heresy and blasphemy to impose itself, like a sort of rehearsal for Islam. We need to learn to properly liberate humanity from ideology, if that's even possible - not get rid of new ones by reviving an old one to replace it. That doesn't mean not respecting and appreciating the virtues embedded within Christianity - it just means being real about history and human nature, and realize we are discussing it with modern eyes from a modern perspective. We're not arguing with Augustine or Origen or somebody now - or we would soon find out how tolerant and respectful Christianity was for many centuries. I don't have an answer to finding an "accelerator" pedal to bring Islam forward about five hundred years, unfortunately.
The sanctity of the individual began to be undermined as the scientific revolution of the early 18th century led to a philosophic revolution towards Socialism. In many of our Western countries Socialism has led to the perception that individual success comes as the expense of others and thus should be penalised. Most of Europe suffers this disease and thus demonstrates lower growth and development. We need to get back to a true merit based society which follows nature’s laws. As long as some people think that mankind can supersede nature, we are doomed to regression.
Just saw it on youtube, superb.
Well done.
Religion can be just as much a collectivism that can be imposed on others as much as government, itself. Don't believe me? Go to try to make friends at a roadside bar in Alabama, sometime
'the world's top thinkers including me, myself and I...' ok; sure.
It's pre-ordered. Looking forward to reading it.
👏👏👏