Pro tip: if you only watch the KK parts, you can infer the arguments being made by the other panelists AND avoid feeling the urge to stick an ice pick in your ear!
You are completely different from me. I am a sucker for punishment. I am fascinated with how the other sides thinks and behaves. Dave Smith words helps me to understand the mindset coming from the otherside of what O believeis commonsense. I have studied challenging behaviour and the one book that helped me deal with difficult and dangerous behaviour, told that understanding the situation is not know how to respond to challenging behaviour but the person with challenging behaviour responds to you. Konstantin shares a lot of my veiws and watch Dave's reaction to him was telling. Dave seemed very insecure and needed Piers reassurance. Dave swings his big dick around on his podcast and people who share the same veiw as he. However, if Douglas actually did debate Dave on his opinions he would have needed Joe Rogan's hand holding too. I see people like Dave Smith can't debate logic they only can shout and fume feelings.
Great job KK. You are bringing back the spirit and quality of broadcast debate that we have not seen since the The MacNeil/Lehrer NewsHour. Meanwhile the inexplicable primacy of commentators like Dave Smith will be a flash in the pan the likes of which we have not seen since Morton Downey Jr..
Without prejudice or any other prompting I asked chatGPT to describe Dave Smith's argumentative tactics using short bullet points. This was the response: "Rapid-fire ideological framing, comedy-as-cover rhetoric, libertarian jiu-jitsu—he pivots from punchline to moral absolutism in seconds, using faux-naïve interrogation and weaponized hypotheticals to bait opponents into moral trap-setting, then finishes with point-scoring rhetoric wrapped in rage-smirking certainty."
When I asked it to describe KK it said: "Socratic pacing, preemptive generosity, steelmanning with intent, narrative judo, humility as blade, tone discipline, moral cornering without escalation."
Dave Smith:
“Israel wipes countries off the map. It’s what they do.” So says Dave Smith—an inversion so complete it borders on historical parody. In reality, Israel has spent 77 years projecting and practicing the precise opposite doctrine: no unprovoked wars, no opportunistic invasions, no conquest for conquest’s sake. Every major military action has been either a decisive response to open aggression or a preemptive strike launched in the face of unambiguous, imminent threat—in full view of the world. Unlike America, Israel adheres to the classical doctrine of consolidating defensive gains, not abandoning them. Its record is not one of expansionist aggression, but of reluctant, reactive survival.
Dave Smith edged onto “Israel is the puppet master” rhetoric.“Why do we always have to look at things from Israel's point of view?” Smith's disregard for Iran's repeated and overt commitment to the annihilation of Israel, a nation the USA holds as an ally, is embarrassing. Both Morgan and Smith mischaracterized the US attitude towards Iran. Generation X will never forgive Iran for the holding of US hostages and continually sending assassins to our country. Even my left of center friends do not trust Iran's uranium enrichment program.
From today's Guardian: "At a conference in Tehran in October, Ahmadinejad, a populist who promoted himself as a champion of the marginalized and underprivileged, stoked international outrage with a comment that was interpreted as calling for Israel “to be wiped off the map”, although other translations offered less incendiary forms of words.
Apparently revelling in the notoriety, the president followed up by calling the Holocaust “a myth”."
KK you eviscerated Dave Smith. That was fantastic. Sadly, Smith probably believes he did well. He really needs to understand what a Strawman is!
As an aside, I would love it if you & Francis interviewed Armin Navabi of Atheist Republic. I have been glued to his livestreams for days. I don't think anyone understands what's going on in Iran better than him.
I know you said you only did this debate to get Piers back on your show , however I think it is as much important to debate the Woke right as it is to debate the Woke left. I know the Woke Left are reluctant to debate and the Woke right are more into "I destroyed you with fact and logic" face off just for clicks and subs. But they are all helpful in understanding what is going on in the public psyche of the digital world. Dave does seem to be a very vulnerable debater. It always seems he needs to be in a debate of 2 to 1, and him being part of the 2. Dave hasn't been on a debate were it is one on one or that he is the one against two. Look at Natasha Hausoff debate on Mogans show. That was an attack. Something Dave can only do well. At least Piers has more respect for you Konstantin but you know he was more on Dave's side than yours. I don't believe in unbais mediation. There only can be a one on one to get a fair debate.
I would love for you to interveiw Dave Smith more than to get Peirs Mogan back on your show. Just to see how Dave's attitude changes when he is just there for a chat with the opposition and nit a debate. People wear different masks when put in different situations. I like to see them all.
KK and Dave, as Konstantin pointed out, are equals and at the same level of knowledge and resources. That is why the debate was fair and productive. Douglas Murray out matches a comedy. If Douglas cared to debate Dave it will always come back to the same argument of expertise. It is not equally matched so the debate will go no where and be a waste of time.
Don't know how Smith could keep screeching "for no good reason" when Iran has made it clear they would like to see both Israel AND the USA obliterated...
Are we watching the same debate? Konstantin was intellectually dishonest throughout. Could someone give me a time-stamp of ONE really good point Konstantin made?
No one is interested in your desperate attempt to make a name for yourself by riding the coattails of KK's Substack. You're unable to distinguish between logic, facts & reason and the baseless emotional rubbish that passes for political commentary with useful idiots like you. Piss off.
Everything you said about KK can be said about Dave. Dave is too over emotional to be logical. It all allcabout his feelings and moral superiority. I can give you a good point that Konstantin made right from the beginning. "I am no expert on this and I know very little about this conflict. But an ex comedians and current comedians are just two blokes in a pub having a discussion." There you have it honesty at its purest.
I'm not sure that Dave is dishonest (in a way that Kisin is), but I agree he does get emotional and it doesn't help. However... Your "good point tht Konstantin made" is "I am no expert"? That's it? He then sets about telling a bunch of untruths and gives us his opinion on why Iran must be contained as though he were an expert. Why is he debating if he claims no expertise on the matter? I would suggest hat this self-effacing statement is disingenuous. Something as seriousas a potential WW3 is not for pub-debates. It's far too serious for that. Public opinion has to be based on facts and historical precedent - not "my uncle Ted thinks...".
I did not say that people are not allowed to discuss it in pubs. They are free to debate anything they like. But if that "uncle Ted" debate is broadcast to millions, well then I have an issue with that. My modest comments are read by about a dozen people. You don't go on a show that reaches millions without thinking that you bring something to the debate - and you certainly don;t go there to say "in my opinions" at the same time as saying "but I'm no expert". You have to back your opinions with some facts. Kisin doesn't really do that. See my comment elsewhere: <<<I don't think my opinion is more valuable than others. But I do hope that my opinions are grounded in facts; historical facts. Kisin just makes it all up. Let's have a regime change in Iran. And don't talk about the failed regime changes in other places. They are not Iran. What sort of nonsense is that? .>>>
No that is not my opinion. Straw man again. I’m saying if someone says he knows scot-diddly-doo about physics, he can give his opinion about why Einstein didn’t know what he was talking about, but I am more than entitled to suggest that he should keep his opinions to himself. Kisin was not being sincere when he said what he said. He holds bigoted opinions that are divorced from historical precedent. I am in no position to stop people making a fool of themselves and televising the event.
Direct quote from your comment above. “…but I am more than entitled to suggest that he should keep his opinions to himself.” That’s very similar to Murray’s view on Dave Smith! Additionally, Kisin prefaced the entire conversation with the fact that they were both comedians, either past or present, and therefore not experts on the subject - a very reasonable position from which to start the conversation. I’m sensing however that you consider your opinion more valuable than others…it certainly comes across as so.
Another straw man. I don't think my opinion is more valuable than others. But I do hope that my opinions are grounded in facts; historical facts. Kisin just makes it all up. Let's have a regime change in Iran. And don't talk about the failed regime changes in other places. They are not Iran. What sort of nonsense is that? As for the "reasonable" position you point to, I have delat with than in another comment in this substack comments.
That is what Konstantin was pointing out and letting the audience know these are not professionals or anyone important who know what they are talking about. He was being honest from the beginning. I don't hear Dave giving the same honesty about his knowledge. Dave gets upset when he is not treated like someone who is important. You are worried about WW3 and I am worried about Nuclear Holocaust. Either way there is no sure way out of this. Two comedians should not be debating this and Konstantin was the only one who pointed that out
Fact:
After the 1979 Islamic Revolution, Iran was ruled by a theocratic regime under Ayatollah Khomeini.
The regime used a mix of religious indoctrination and nationalism to mobilize volunteers for the war effort, especially through the Basij, a paramilitary volunteer militia.
Many of these child volunteers were told they would become martyrs and go to heaven if they died in battle.
Minefield Clearing:
There are numerous reports from journalists, NGOs, and war veterans describing how child soldiers were sent across minefields to detonate mines, often without protective equipment.
Children were sometimes given plastic keys, symbolizing the “key to paradise,” worn around their necks before being sent forward.
The problem you have is convincing me that the claim that Israel makes about Hamas arming children, deliberately placing children in areas where the IDF has warned civilians to leave is not true when there is past evidence that this ideology using children in combat many times before. How do we fight an enemy who puts their childern on the front line for their God. When our God tells us to protect life on earth, and your God tells you to died for life after death. This war is against life and death. I hope life wins.
I'm sorry but I don't understand what you are saying:
"Two comedians should not be debating this and Konstantin was the only one who pointed that out".
Why is he there debating if he thinks two comedians should not be debating this? Why didn't he just say: "Dave. You are a comedian. Show some humility. As for me, I'm not going to say anything".
But no. He makes some pretty ignorant points about Iran.
You then proceed to talk about "child soldiers" that Kisin mentioned. He didn't mention that it was American-back Saddam Hussain that attacked Iran. He didn't mention that it was America that gave Saddam chemical weapons, and provided satellite inteligence to better deploy those chemical weapons against Iranians.
You talk about child-soldiers; let me talk about the children America has napalmed; the children Israel has murdered, decapitated, incinerated. No. Kisin won't mention that.
It's not about supporting Iran. I don't like the regime in Iran. But it is lunacy to imagine that Iranians will cheer Israel and America for bombing their cities.
You never learn. The Americans were saying that the Iraqis will celebrate and welcome the Americans into Iraq. Well we saw how the Americans were welcomed.
Children given plastic keys to paradise you say. Do you want to tell us how Israel planted toys that had been booby-trapped for children to pick up? Do you want to go and find out about that? Do you want to read about how teh American army carried out biological warfare tests on Afro-Americans?
How do we fight an enemy who put their children on the front line?
You have fallen for the Israeli, racist, dehumanising lie that Gold Meir uttered: There will be peace when Arabs love their children more than they hate us. Another disgusting lie she told: I can forgive the Arabs for killing our children. But I will never forgive them for MAKING US KILL THEIR CHILDREN.
That is disgusting. That is a lie. And you have swallowed it.
And you conclude with the nonsense that is repeated: "they stand for death. we stand for life"". That is another racist slur. Just think about Amalek and tell me who is obsessed with death.
Muslims are told not to wish for death because it gives us time to do more good in this world.
Obviously, you didn't listen to a word Konstantin said. He did say right from the beginning why he was there in this pointless debate. Konstantin wants Piers Morgan to come on Triggernometry again. Piers said he won't go back on unless Konstantin comes on his show. I know these comedians have no scruples, but at least KK is upfront about it.
The Israeli booby-trap toys are more of a Lebanese urban myth than a credible source of information. Back in South Africa, I had a Lebanese boyfriend. This is when I first heard about the booby trap toy. He told me the Israeli soldiers would give toys to children or leave them lying about, when they played with them, they would take them away to coax information out of them about their adults and parents. The booby trap toys was told by the Authorities to the civilians so to discourage the childern from being coax into to telling the Isreali soldiers any info. But this is just second-hand information, which could be BS. However, the Iranian paradise keys are well reported and documented with various sources of information. No booby traps toys needed to get that Intel.
We could swap propaganda BS until the cows return, but it will do nought.
The West is not perfect but it is my preferred place to live. It has done horrible things but what nation hasn't?
Yes, I disagree with what America, Europe and Israel have done in war. It is all disgusting.
Dropping bombs on your enemies' women and children is a horrible thing to do. But I ask you, what nation on this earth cares about dropping bombs on their enemies women and children? China? Russia? Any Nation in Africa or Middle East? This goes against my grain, and I am not saying I am moral or good for feeling this way, but I find it more sinister that an Ideology can recruit their children to clean land mines.
Yes, it is horrible that soldiers can gun down or bomb the children of their enemy, but to send your own child out in a field of bombs, what nation, what parent does that? I would throw my body down on a landmine to save my child's life. I can not fathom a parent who could live on knowing their child's little body was used to save theirs.
I am sorry, I can not support the Islamic regime in Iran, it goes against my grain and my values. If that makes me the bad guy, I am happy never being good. I do not see myself the better person here. You most likely way better than me, in knowledge and morals. However, I have to be honest with you, the propaganda that Israel and the US spew is more in line with my own reasoning and understanding. Whenever I try to understand the other side, it is all about a mishmash of emotions, contradictions, shaming and insults. We all can be cold hearted shit heads when it comes to money power and survival. A fact of life, I am afraid.
Killing your enemy to protect your own, I can understand to a certain extent. However, what goes against my grain are a mish-mash of feelings, contradictions, shaming and insults. You will always lose me when that starts to happen. Dave Smith can make good points but then he loses me on all the shaming and moral high horse shite and the emotional contradictions. If Dave did away with that then he would be better than KK and Douglas put together.
Seriously? That’s why Konstantin was on the show debating? He is that desperate to get Morgan on his show? Seriously? I’d like to hear Konstantin confirm that. That he spent 50-minutes sabre-rattling just to get Morgan on his show.
Yes, propaganda is BS. I agree.
Your reason for hating Iran is that the regime sent its own children to sweep mines. Its own children, I suppose, is what bothers you. Israel strip-searching children, beating them, including sexual violence, would, I am assuming be disgusting, but understandable. Sodomising a prisoner, and publicly demanding the right to do so, repugnant though it is, is understandable? Mocking the death and maiming of children is offensive, but understandable? Murdering 15 first-responders, hands behind tied behind their back, burying them in shallow graves is obscene, but understandable. War is hell, right?
I’m struggling to understand why your contempt for a regime extends to its people – normal Iranian citizens that are being bombed. At least 200 civilians have been killed. What do you think will happen if the regime is toppled?
I’m struggling to understand why Israel has the right to attack Iran, given what Israel has been doing to Palestinians these past 80 years. I’m struggling to understand why you think Israel is justified. You must believe that, because that is the argument Kisin was making.
You would throw your body on a bomb to save your child’s life. But your bleeding heart will survive when your government bombs children, decapitate them, incinerate them; you can somehow justify it. Oh, you hate it. But, hey, war is hell.
The European media went insane when they saw blue-eyed, blond-haired people being bombed in Ukraine; but complete indifference to brown children being bombed in Palestine, Syria, Iran, Yemen, Lebanon. All of this, though deplorable, is understandable. It’s the sinister nature of the Iranian regime that bothers you. And for that you are prepared to sacrifice Iranian children.
You think I support the mullahs in Tehran? I don’t. But Israel and America have just given Iranians to rally round their country. Not the regime. But their country. Margaret Thatcher was despised in the UK, until she went to war in the Falklands. She won a land-slide in the following general election. That is what war does.
Now to the crux of the matter. Israel has been saying since 1984 that Iran I s just months away from a nuclear weapon. Since 1984!
Iran has allowed IAEA inspectors in. Iran has signed the NPT. The IAEA inspectors have said that Iran has been less than honest, but they have no reason to believe that Iran intends to make a nuclear device.
The feckless Piers Morgan asks, “Why would they go to 60%”? But that’s because Morgan is feckless.
It’s called “nuclear latency”; the potential to build a device quickly – Uranium enrichment is a long, long process. And why have nuclear latency? It’s bleedin’ obvious! America and Israel just showed the whole world why everyone should have a nuclear device!
North Korea is pretty reprehensible – a man-god rules over that country. And as an aside, that is what Trump aspires to, the lunatic that he is. But America is not about to bomb North Korea.
Iran will triple its resolve to get nuclear weapons now. Its neighbour Turkey must now be thinking they had better start work on one. Saudi Arabia will be looking to get some. Hungary perhaps? What about the Serbs? Canada is pretty vulnerable with American eyes on making it the 51st state.
The world is now a more dangerous place.
Iran was contained until Trump ripped up the Obama deal. Iran was going to sit down with America and talk on 15 June in Oman, until Israel attacked it on the 13th.
Do you see where all of this is going?
I don’t need to be a fan of the mullah’s to realise what Israel has done.
Konstantin Kisin is a moron who does not understand what is happening, or he is simply another bigot who sees Muslims in Iran, and therefore they must be terrorists.
Dave Smith is a fetid moron and I don’t understand why or how anyone listens to him or even cares about his parochial views. How did this literal nobody even enter the political sphere? Never even heard of him as a comedian. He’s a simple contrarian who doesn’t realize what a zombie he is. After all is said and done, he’ll be swept back into the sea of irrelevance from where he came. But he can thank Israel for the money he’s made demonizing the Jewish State (or perhaps Al-Jezeera, as might eventually find out). Piers is also total schmuck—especially with regard to Natasha, who is brilliant. I blame him for Arsenal’s woes too 😂
Pro tip: if you only watch the KK parts, you can infer the arguments being made by the other panelists AND avoid feeling the urge to stick an ice pick in your ear!
That's exactly how I viewed it! I hit the 10s forward until I saw KK make a face then hit back to see why.
You are completely different from me. I am a sucker for punishment. I am fascinated with how the other sides thinks and behaves. Dave Smith words helps me to understand the mindset coming from the otherside of what O believeis commonsense. I have studied challenging behaviour and the one book that helped me deal with difficult and dangerous behaviour, told that understanding the situation is not know how to respond to challenging behaviour but the person with challenging behaviour responds to you. Konstantin shares a lot of my veiws and watch Dave's reaction to him was telling. Dave seemed very insecure and needed Piers reassurance. Dave swings his big dick around on his podcast and people who share the same veiw as he. However, if Douglas actually did debate Dave on his opinions he would have needed Joe Rogan's hand holding too. I see people like Dave Smith can't debate logic they only can shout and fume feelings.
I listened to the whole thing. I hope for his sake that Dave Smith is saving money and investing.
It wasn't my ear that I felt tempted to stick an ice pick into...
Great job KK. You are bringing back the spirit and quality of broadcast debate that we have not seen since the The MacNeil/Lehrer NewsHour. Meanwhile the inexplicable primacy of commentators like Dave Smith will be a flash in the pan the likes of which we have not seen since Morton Downey Jr..
Without prejudice or any other prompting I asked chatGPT to describe Dave Smith's argumentative tactics using short bullet points. This was the response: "Rapid-fire ideological framing, comedy-as-cover rhetoric, libertarian jiu-jitsu—he pivots from punchline to moral absolutism in seconds, using faux-naïve interrogation and weaponized hypotheticals to bait opponents into moral trap-setting, then finishes with point-scoring rhetoric wrapped in rage-smirking certainty."
When I asked it to describe KK it said: "Socratic pacing, preemptive generosity, steelmanning with intent, narrative judo, humility as blade, tone discipline, moral cornering without escalation."
Dave Smith:
“Israel wipes countries off the map. It’s what they do.” So says Dave Smith—an inversion so complete it borders on historical parody. In reality, Israel has spent 77 years projecting and practicing the precise opposite doctrine: no unprovoked wars, no opportunistic invasions, no conquest for conquest’s sake. Every major military action has been either a decisive response to open aggression or a preemptive strike launched in the face of unambiguous, imminent threat—in full view of the world. Unlike America, Israel adheres to the classical doctrine of consolidating defensive gains, not abandoning them. Its record is not one of expansionist aggression, but of reluctant, reactive survival.
Dave Smith edged onto “Israel is the puppet master” rhetoric.“Why do we always have to look at things from Israel's point of view?” Smith's disregard for Iran's repeated and overt commitment to the annihilation of Israel, a nation the USA holds as an ally, is embarrassing. Both Morgan and Smith mischaracterized the US attitude towards Iran. Generation X will never forgive Iran for the holding of US hostages and continually sending assassins to our country. Even my left of center friends do not trust Iran's uranium enrichment program.
Can you provide a quote where Iran wants to "annihilate" Israel. An acutal quote with a reference please.
From today's Guardian: "At a conference in Tehran in October, Ahmadinejad, a populist who promoted himself as a champion of the marginalized and underprivileged, stoked international outrage with a comment that was interpreted as calling for Israel “to be wiped off the map”, although other translations offered less incendiary forms of words.
Apparently revelling in the notoriety, the president followed up by calling the Holocaust “a myth”."
This article just scratches the surface....
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jun/22/iran-israel-us-alliance-and-enemies
KK you eviscerated Dave Smith. That was fantastic. Sadly, Smith probably believes he did well. He really needs to understand what a Strawman is!
As an aside, I would love it if you & Francis interviewed Armin Navabi of Atheist Republic. I have been glued to his livestreams for days. I don't think anyone understands what's going on in Iran better than him.
eviscerated? really. Can you give me a couple of really good points Kisin made and the time-stamps so that I can see what eviscerate looks like.
https://watford.substack.com/p/konstantin-thinks-youre-stupid
Konstantin you are amazing. Brilliant stuff😘👌
I know you said you only did this debate to get Piers back on your show , however I think it is as much important to debate the Woke right as it is to debate the Woke left. I know the Woke Left are reluctant to debate and the Woke right are more into "I destroyed you with fact and logic" face off just for clicks and subs. But they are all helpful in understanding what is going on in the public psyche of the digital world. Dave does seem to be a very vulnerable debater. It always seems he needs to be in a debate of 2 to 1, and him being part of the 2. Dave hasn't been on a debate were it is one on one or that he is the one against two. Look at Natasha Hausoff debate on Mogans show. That was an attack. Something Dave can only do well. At least Piers has more respect for you Konstantin but you know he was more on Dave's side than yours. I don't believe in unbais mediation. There only can be a one on one to get a fair debate.
I would love for you to interveiw Dave Smith more than to get Peirs Mogan back on your show. Just to see how Dave's attitude changes when he is just there for a chat with the opposition and nit a debate. People wear different masks when put in different situations. I like to see them all.
Thank you for this 😘👌
Interesting debate, KK clearly came out on top, a really accomplished debater. For once, I also thought Pier's was reasonably fair handed.
Konstantin! You need to give Douglas Debating lessons!
KK and Dave, as Konstantin pointed out, are equals and at the same level of knowledge and resources. That is why the debate was fair and productive. Douglas Murray out matches a comedy. If Douglas cared to debate Dave it will always come back to the same argument of expertise. It is not equally matched so the debate will go no where and be a waste of time.
Don't know how Smith could keep screeching "for no good reason" when Iran has made it clear they would like to see both Israel AND the USA obliterated...
Are we watching the same debate? Konstantin was intellectually dishonest throughout. Could someone give me a time-stamp of ONE really good point Konstantin made?
https://watford.substack.com/p/konstantin-thinks-youre-stupid
No one is interested in your desperate attempt to make a name for yourself by riding the coattails of KK's Substack. You're unable to distinguish between logic, facts & reason and the baseless emotional rubbish that passes for political commentary with useful idiots like you. Piss off.
Basically, ALL of the reasons Iran cannot be allowed a nuclear bomb ofc
Everything you said about KK can be said about Dave. Dave is too over emotional to be logical. It all allcabout his feelings and moral superiority. I can give you a good point that Konstantin made right from the beginning. "I am no expert on this and I know very little about this conflict. But an ex comedians and current comedians are just two blokes in a pub having a discussion." There you have it honesty at its purest.
I'm not sure that Dave is dishonest (in a way that Kisin is), but I agree he does get emotional and it doesn't help. However... Your "good point tht Konstantin made" is "I am no expert"? That's it? He then sets about telling a bunch of untruths and gives us his opinion on why Iran must be contained as though he were an expert. Why is he debating if he claims no expertise on the matter? I would suggest hat this self-effacing statement is disingenuous. Something as seriousas a potential WW3 is not for pub-debates. It's far too serious for that. Public opinion has to be based on facts and historical precedent - not "my uncle Ted thinks...".
Why are YOU debating it, then? By your own logic... forgive me if you are in fact "an expert"
I did not say that people are not allowed to discuss it in pubs. They are free to debate anything they like. But if that "uncle Ted" debate is broadcast to millions, well then I have an issue with that. My modest comments are read by about a dozen people. You don't go on a show that reaches millions without thinking that you bring something to the debate - and you certainly don;t go there to say "in my opinions" at the same time as saying "but I'm no expert". You have to back your opinions with some facts. Kisin doesn't really do that. See my comment elsewhere: <<<I don't think my opinion is more valuable than others. But I do hope that my opinions are grounded in facts; historical facts. Kisin just makes it all up. Let's have a regime change in Iran. And don't talk about the failed regime changes in other places. They are not Iran. What sort of nonsense is that? .>>>
So your opinion is as neither of them are experts they shouldn’t debate and we shouldn’t be able to watch/hear them? Is that it?
No that is not my opinion. Straw man again. I’m saying if someone says he knows scot-diddly-doo about physics, he can give his opinion about why Einstein didn’t know what he was talking about, but I am more than entitled to suggest that he should keep his opinions to himself. Kisin was not being sincere when he said what he said. He holds bigoted opinions that are divorced from historical precedent. I am in no position to stop people making a fool of themselves and televising the event.
Direct quote from your comment above. “…but I am more than entitled to suggest that he should keep his opinions to himself.” That’s very similar to Murray’s view on Dave Smith! Additionally, Kisin prefaced the entire conversation with the fact that they were both comedians, either past or present, and therefore not experts on the subject - a very reasonable position from which to start the conversation. I’m sensing however that you consider your opinion more valuable than others…it certainly comes across as so.
Another straw man. I don't think my opinion is more valuable than others. But I do hope that my opinions are grounded in facts; historical facts. Kisin just makes it all up. Let's have a regime change in Iran. And don't talk about the failed regime changes in other places. They are not Iran. What sort of nonsense is that? As for the "reasonable" position you point to, I have delat with than in another comment in this substack comments.
That is what Konstantin was pointing out and letting the audience know these are not professionals or anyone important who know what they are talking about. He was being honest from the beginning. I don't hear Dave giving the same honesty about his knowledge. Dave gets upset when he is not treated like someone who is important. You are worried about WW3 and I am worried about Nuclear Holocaust. Either way there is no sure way out of this. Two comedians should not be debating this and Konstantin was the only one who pointed that out
Fact:
After the 1979 Islamic Revolution, Iran was ruled by a theocratic regime under Ayatollah Khomeini.
The regime used a mix of religious indoctrination and nationalism to mobilize volunteers for the war effort, especially through the Basij, a paramilitary volunteer militia.
Many of these child volunteers were told they would become martyrs and go to heaven if they died in battle.
Minefield Clearing:
There are numerous reports from journalists, NGOs, and war veterans describing how child soldiers were sent across minefields to detonate mines, often without protective equipment.
Children were sometimes given plastic keys, symbolizing the “key to paradise,” worn around their necks before being sent forward.
The problem you have is convincing me that the claim that Israel makes about Hamas arming children, deliberately placing children in areas where the IDF has warned civilians to leave is not true when there is past evidence that this ideology using children in combat many times before. How do we fight an enemy who puts their childern on the front line for their God. When our God tells us to protect life on earth, and your God tells you to died for life after death. This war is against life and death. I hope life wins.
I'm sorry but I don't understand what you are saying:
"Two comedians should not be debating this and Konstantin was the only one who pointed that out".
Why is he there debating if he thinks two comedians should not be debating this? Why didn't he just say: "Dave. You are a comedian. Show some humility. As for me, I'm not going to say anything".
But no. He makes some pretty ignorant points about Iran.
You then proceed to talk about "child soldiers" that Kisin mentioned. He didn't mention that it was American-back Saddam Hussain that attacked Iran. He didn't mention that it was America that gave Saddam chemical weapons, and provided satellite inteligence to better deploy those chemical weapons against Iranians.
You talk about child-soldiers; let me talk about the children America has napalmed; the children Israel has murdered, decapitated, incinerated. No. Kisin won't mention that.
It's not about supporting Iran. I don't like the regime in Iran. But it is lunacy to imagine that Iranians will cheer Israel and America for bombing their cities.
You never learn. The Americans were saying that the Iraqis will celebrate and welcome the Americans into Iraq. Well we saw how the Americans were welcomed.
Children given plastic keys to paradise you say. Do you want to tell us how Israel planted toys that had been booby-trapped for children to pick up? Do you want to go and find out about that? Do you want to read about how teh American army carried out biological warfare tests on Afro-Americans?
How do we fight an enemy who put their children on the front line?
You have fallen for the Israeli, racist, dehumanising lie that Gold Meir uttered: There will be peace when Arabs love their children more than they hate us. Another disgusting lie she told: I can forgive the Arabs for killing our children. But I will never forgive them for MAKING US KILL THEIR CHILDREN.
That is disgusting. That is a lie. And you have swallowed it.
And you conclude with the nonsense that is repeated: "they stand for death. we stand for life"". That is another racist slur. Just think about Amalek and tell me who is obsessed with death.
Muslims are told not to wish for death because it gives us time to do more good in this world.
Learn something about Islam.
It's time you left that hate behind.
Obviously, you didn't listen to a word Konstantin said. He did say right from the beginning why he was there in this pointless debate. Konstantin wants Piers Morgan to come on Triggernometry again. Piers said he won't go back on unless Konstantin comes on his show. I know these comedians have no scruples, but at least KK is upfront about it.
The Israeli booby-trap toys are more of a Lebanese urban myth than a credible source of information. Back in South Africa, I had a Lebanese boyfriend. This is when I first heard about the booby trap toy. He told me the Israeli soldiers would give toys to children or leave them lying about, when they played with them, they would take them away to coax information out of them about their adults and parents. The booby trap toys was told by the Authorities to the civilians so to discourage the childern from being coax into to telling the Isreali soldiers any info. But this is just second-hand information, which could be BS. However, the Iranian paradise keys are well reported and documented with various sources of information. No booby traps toys needed to get that Intel.
We could swap propaganda BS until the cows return, but it will do nought.
The West is not perfect but it is my preferred place to live. It has done horrible things but what nation hasn't?
Yes, I disagree with what America, Europe and Israel have done in war. It is all disgusting.
Dropping bombs on your enemies' women and children is a horrible thing to do. But I ask you, what nation on this earth cares about dropping bombs on their enemies women and children? China? Russia? Any Nation in Africa or Middle East? This goes against my grain, and I am not saying I am moral or good for feeling this way, but I find it more sinister that an Ideology can recruit their children to clean land mines.
Yes, it is horrible that soldiers can gun down or bomb the children of their enemy, but to send your own child out in a field of bombs, what nation, what parent does that? I would throw my body down on a landmine to save my child's life. I can not fathom a parent who could live on knowing their child's little body was used to save theirs.
I am sorry, I can not support the Islamic regime in Iran, it goes against my grain and my values. If that makes me the bad guy, I am happy never being good. I do not see myself the better person here. You most likely way better than me, in knowledge and morals. However, I have to be honest with you, the propaganda that Israel and the US spew is more in line with my own reasoning and understanding. Whenever I try to understand the other side, it is all about a mishmash of emotions, contradictions, shaming and insults. We all can be cold hearted shit heads when it comes to money power and survival. A fact of life, I am afraid.
Killing your enemy to protect your own, I can understand to a certain extent. However, what goes against my grain are a mish-mash of feelings, contradictions, shaming and insults. You will always lose me when that starts to happen. Dave Smith can make good points but then he loses me on all the shaming and moral high horse shite and the emotional contradictions. If Dave did away with that then he would be better than KK and Douglas put together.
Seriously? That’s why Konstantin was on the show debating? He is that desperate to get Morgan on his show? Seriously? I’d like to hear Konstantin confirm that. That he spent 50-minutes sabre-rattling just to get Morgan on his show.
Yes, propaganda is BS. I agree.
Your reason for hating Iran is that the regime sent its own children to sweep mines. Its own children, I suppose, is what bothers you. Israel strip-searching children, beating them, including sexual violence, would, I am assuming be disgusting, but understandable. Sodomising a prisoner, and publicly demanding the right to do so, repugnant though it is, is understandable? Mocking the death and maiming of children is offensive, but understandable? Murdering 15 first-responders, hands behind tied behind their back, burying them in shallow graves is obscene, but understandable. War is hell, right?
I’m struggling to understand why your contempt for a regime extends to its people – normal Iranian citizens that are being bombed. At least 200 civilians have been killed. What do you think will happen if the regime is toppled?
I’m struggling to understand why Israel has the right to attack Iran, given what Israel has been doing to Palestinians these past 80 years. I’m struggling to understand why you think Israel is justified. You must believe that, because that is the argument Kisin was making.
You would throw your body on a bomb to save your child’s life. But your bleeding heart will survive when your government bombs children, decapitate them, incinerate them; you can somehow justify it. Oh, you hate it. But, hey, war is hell.
The European media went insane when they saw blue-eyed, blond-haired people being bombed in Ukraine; but complete indifference to brown children being bombed in Palestine, Syria, Iran, Yemen, Lebanon. All of this, though deplorable, is understandable. It’s the sinister nature of the Iranian regime that bothers you. And for that you are prepared to sacrifice Iranian children.
You think I support the mullahs in Tehran? I don’t. But Israel and America have just given Iranians to rally round their country. Not the regime. But their country. Margaret Thatcher was despised in the UK, until she went to war in the Falklands. She won a land-slide in the following general election. That is what war does.
Now to the crux of the matter. Israel has been saying since 1984 that Iran I s just months away from a nuclear weapon. Since 1984!
Iran has allowed IAEA inspectors in. Iran has signed the NPT. The IAEA inspectors have said that Iran has been less than honest, but they have no reason to believe that Iran intends to make a nuclear device.
The feckless Piers Morgan asks, “Why would they go to 60%”? But that’s because Morgan is feckless.
It’s called “nuclear latency”; the potential to build a device quickly – Uranium enrichment is a long, long process. And why have nuclear latency? It’s bleedin’ obvious! America and Israel just showed the whole world why everyone should have a nuclear device!
North Korea is pretty reprehensible – a man-god rules over that country. And as an aside, that is what Trump aspires to, the lunatic that he is. But America is not about to bomb North Korea.
Iran will triple its resolve to get nuclear weapons now. Its neighbour Turkey must now be thinking they had better start work on one. Saudi Arabia will be looking to get some. Hungary perhaps? What about the Serbs? Canada is pretty vulnerable with American eyes on making it the 51st state.
The world is now a more dangerous place.
Iran was contained until Trump ripped up the Obama deal. Iran was going to sit down with America and talk on 15 June in Oman, until Israel attacked it on the 13th.
Do you see where all of this is going?
I don’t need to be a fan of the mullah’s to realise what Israel has done.
Konstantin Kisin is a moron who does not understand what is happening, or he is simply another bigot who sees Muslims in Iran, and therefore they must be terrorists.
Dave Smith is a fetid moron and I don’t understand why or how anyone listens to him or even cares about his parochial views. How did this literal nobody even enter the political sphere? Never even heard of him as a comedian. He’s a simple contrarian who doesn’t realize what a zombie he is. After all is said and done, he’ll be swept back into the sea of irrelevance from where he came. But he can thank Israel for the money he’s made demonizing the Jewish State (or perhaps Al-Jezeera, as might eventually find out). Piers is also total schmuck—especially with regard to Natasha, who is brilliant. I blame him for Arsenal’s woes too 😂